GolfWRX: Eric Wind is Interviewed on Flatstick Focus Podcast

Parker Reeves of GolfWRX spoke with Eric Wind regarding watches and golf on his Flatstick Focus podcast.

You can listen to the podcast here: http://www.golfwrx.com/635260/flatstick-focus-interview-with-eric-wind/

You can read the transcript here:

Introduction:  I'm Eric Wind and this is Flatstick Focus.

Parker: All right, everybody. Welcome back. Another episode of Flatstick Focus. And I'm pretty excited about this one. I'm bummed cuz Glen can't be here. We'll go over that. But Glenn had a little bit of surgery this week. He's on the mend. He survived, but he's not here tonight, but he will be back. But joining me tonight is somebody that I've wanted to have on the podcast for a while. We've been talking about this for a while. And just somebody that I've really enjoyed getting to know a little bit. So welcome. Please, everybody say welcome to Eric Wind. Eric, thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Eric: Thanks for having me, Parker. I'm a big fan of yours and I love putters, almost as much as I love vintage watches. Happy to be on the podcast.

Parker: You know it's interesting you say that because when we were having a little bit of pre-podcast conversation yesterday, I was pretty impressed with your putter knowledge. You are deeper into this than I even knew. So I'm pretty excited about and interested in talking about watches and putters. And so if you would just kind of tell us - who is Eric Wind and what you do, and how you got into watches and putters?

Eric:  Absolutely. Well, I started a company called Wind Vintage three years ago, buying and selling high-end vintage watches. But you know, sort of across the price spectrum from maybe $1,000 to over a million dollars. So, I mostly focus on vintage watches and sell some modern watches, but primarily watches from before 1980. Before I started Wind Vintage, I worked as vice president Senior Specialist of watches for Christie's as part of the New York team. And I did that for over two years before I decided it was time and there was opportunity to start my own business to help clients I had been working with there. Prior to that I was a contributor to Hodinkee for five years, which I could say is the leading watch blog. I started there, back when very few people heard of Hodinkee in 2010 as a contributor, writing about vintage watches and got to see the site really grow in that five year period to the point where a number of people invested including Google Ventures and it's really a big operation today with about 50 employees. I developed an interest in watches in college at Georgetown as a hobby and something to be interested in. I never expected to do watches full time and you know I am surprised that I can earn a living doing what I love. I guess like some people do buying and selling cool putters. I'm originally from Wisconsin. I got into golf I think like a lot of people because of Tiger Woods. You know that his first professional tournament was at the Greater Milwaukee open in 1996. So that was cool. And then he obviously won the Masters in 1997 and I became interested in Scotty Cameron putters and picked up golf around that time. I played for my junior high team and then high school team. And my first high end putter was a Bettinardi BB1ms with a gold insert. I just didn't putt amazing with it. I think that the slant and the neck didn't quite do it for me although I loved the putter. So amazingly, there was a golf store in Sheboygan, Wisconsin I'd go to called Town and Country golf course and kind of a massive bar and golf club and it was 2001 and they had an “Inspired” by David Duval putter. So I traded that putter basically to get an “Inspired” by David Duval for something like $150 which was way under market at the time - a Newport Beach putter with the slot and no site or sight line, and I still have that putter to this day and it kind of shaped my my interest. I still love that putter.

Parker: It's pretty interesting. Obviously, we talked about this, but just the correlation between watches. and putters is pretty amazing. And the way that the companies operate, the way that the hobby is run or is enjoyed by people, there's just a lot of similarities. And you know, you can see everything from high end, the Damascus Scotty Camerons that have been up to $15,000 to $20,000. There's a Tiger Woods “backup” for sale right now that's almost at $50,000. So watches definitely have a larger audience, and you know, much higher, much higher values and things like that on the high end spectrum. But I think there's a lot of similarity there that we're going to get into in a little bit, I mean, obviously, watches are a hobby of mine as well. So you know, we have that in common. And I think a lot of golfers have that in common. And I've seen it on different forums. You know, it's just there. It's just people like and I think, golfers just kind of like accessories, and trinkets, headcovers, divot tools, watches, watch bands, just different things like that. I think they just all fit together for some reason.

Eric:  Yeah, it is. It is funny. I think people either kind of have that collecting gene or not. And the the rise of collecting putters, I'd say starting in the 1990s, from what I saw, they're very similar to the rise in collecting watches, wristwatches. 

Parker: For sure, and I know we wanted to have that conversation a little bit, just specifically about certain putter companies in comparison to watch companies and I've got some in mind that I thought I would throw at you. And I'd love to hear your feedback on if you think that's applicable, because you definitely know the watch industry way more than I do. But you know more about putters than I do about watches. So I think you can give me some good feedback here and tell me if you think these would fit or not, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on them. I kind of liken you know, Rolex, is the crown everybody (wants). You grow up wanting Rolex. Businessmen want their first Rolex, it's just kind of a popular item. For whatever reason they've been around a long time. It's kind of been a status symbol for a long time. And I think in the putter world, I have to put that in comparison to Scotty Cameron. I think they lineup so well, they both have a crown logo, and they're just, you know, higher end putters. Now, I know you can speak to this more than I can. Do you get the value out of a Scotty Cameron that cost $300 that you might get out of a custom that you pay $450 for that’s fit to you? I don't know, but I know, the resale value on Camerons is so high. Would you agree that those two are probably top dogs as far as popularity and desirability?

Eric: Yeah, absolutely. You know, the fact of the matter is, there's a lot of amazing independent putter makers out there. And same with a lot of amazing watch brands where you get probably more bang for your buck than buying, you know, a $10,000 Rolex GMT Master Submariner, those are retail prices. They're thanks to the craze of modern watches are throwing way over retail secondhand but, you know, Rolex is just a very high quality product. Say that the $10,000 Rolex GMT Master, we’re talking retail prices, the Pepsi or the Batgirl, or Batman, that best guess is that it costs maybe $500 or $600 to make that watch, actually. And then you've got, you know, kinds of marketing and distribution and other things. And obviously, there's big profit there. Rolex, sells it to the retailers for about $6,000. And they mark it up, you know, 40% from there. I think probably Scotty Cameron has stuff that is really well built. Amazing. Probably doesn't cost an insane amount of money to make your average Scotty Cameron, but they're able to come in very high prices, thanks to the marketing reputation and tour victories, and obviously, people use them on tour.

Parker: Yeah, I agree with that. And I think a lot of it, like you said, Rolex makes a really, really high quality product. And Scotty Cameron makes a really high quality product. The finishing and all that stuff is this . . . you don't get a bad one really, you know, 

Eric: Exactly. That's the same with Rolex. There are basically return rates for modern watch companies, when you sell something, how often does it come back right away? and it's pretty much zero. If you're buying a Rolex in a store, it's not gonna break on you the next month, you know, it's gonna work for a number of years before it will need a service. 

Parker: Right, just like a grip change, or a shaft change. And that means you know, putters and watches if you take care of them, they'll stick around with you for 100 years,

Eric: That's kind of beauty. I've got an Inspired by David Duval, which is a Pro Platinum finish. And it looks mint condition. And I used that, you know, almost as my exclusive putter for almost 20 years. And it looks in the same condition as when I bought it in 2001. 

Parker: Pretty crazy. You could use it for 20 or 50 more.

Eric: I’m sure I’ll give it to my son Charlie, one day.

Parker: That's right. I've seen that golf swing, you're training him up pretty well to it. 

Eric: Exactly.  Yeah, it's fun. He's very talented. He's six years old. As my wife jokes, it was my master plan to get him into golf when he was one year old. We were watching golf together and now, you know, we can play on weekends together.

Parker: That's right. That's good, that's a good plan. I've got a six year old and a three year old and they're kind of starting to want to go to the golf course a little bit. So I need to take advantage of that.

Eric: Yes, yeah, strike while they have the interest. And best advice is while they're still interested, you know, leave them hanging and wanting more, to come back. Rather than staying there so long they get sick of it, because that's not a good thing. 

Parker: Right. My next comparison, and this I don't know, I mean, these are two great companies, but I think they both fit in the shadows, a little bit of the big brother role like Scotty Cameron, I would say my next comparison would be Bettinardi and Omega. I think they both make really quality products, but they just for whatever reason they just don't have the traffic and the excitement behind their product quite as much as the other two.

Eric: Yeah, I would agree with that.  And I, I don't understand that either. I think they're very similar because I feel like Bettinardi maybe should have pursued his own path, maybe a little bit more with graphics and design and head covers and things. It always felt very derivative of what Scotty was doing. And then, you know, I remember just all the Scotty Cameron collectors on the Scotty Cameron fan club on Yahoo way back in the day, that's how far back I go. I was following that when I was like, you know, 11 or 12 years old. I think I'd joined Scotty Cameron Fan Club on Yahoo.

Parker: That’s really impressive! You’ve been at this for a while.

Eric: I just used to live and breathe that stuff and dream of owning a Newport Beach, with an oil can finish one day. I got to see all this develop over 23 years, which is crazy. You know, I remember NASA had covers coming out but all these still rare covers and the sheepskin covers with the snaps and all these things that we feel like are 100 years old now. But yeah, I think that Bettinardi just never quite got the respect although he made incredible putters. I met him at the 2004 PGA Championship at Whistling Straits. I grew up about 20 minutes north of there in Wisconsin, and that Bettinardi signed a flag for me. We were talking and I told them how much I loved his products and Vijay Singh you won the 2004 PGA with a Bettinardi MC for the Japanese market. And he's had, you know, plenty of tour victories, he just doesn't quite get the traction and respect I think he probably deserves

Parker: I agree, I think his stuff is really, really good and really underrated and the history there, we've talked about it a little bit on the podcast, but the history with Scotty and Bob Bettinardi working together is pretty interesting as well, I need to dive into that a little bit more. All right, I've got two more.

Eric: And I think just reflecting more on that, back in the day, I mean, I remember Phil Mickelson putting with a Bettinardi for a while. You know, they were amazing products. But I felt like he came across just at least in his marketing and product design as having a real chip on his shoulder that these putters are so much better than Scotty Cameron's basically, although they didn't say that, but that was definitely the messaging. And I think that rubbed many people the wrong way. And then this other guy was sort of the outlet for selling the tour Bettinardi and he was asking insane amounts of money for things like instead of GSS they had DASS, HH stainless steel and I mean, they were asked this guy I can't remember his name Kyle or something like that was asking more for those putters than Scotty Camerons and people had negative experiences with him. And he came across as very opportunistic, and it was very different from the Scotty Cameron group with Bill Vogeney who is so welcoming and kind. I remember he sent me a copy of his book signed, and then Rand Palace when he started Pause a Golf and was selling tour putters, which they still do. He was so nice and he sent me a Masters special Scottie speed shot putter cover. They had done it just as a gift because I was like the youngest member person into Scotty Cameron putters at that time, which, you know, that was pretty. It was like, you know, a $200 plus putter cover at the time, and I still use that putter cover today on my 009. But yeah, I mean, it was just such a welcoming group and a really cool, chill group of people. And the Bettinardi group just seems kind of frenetic and not not as chill or welcoming for whatever reason.

Parker: Yeah, I think pricing is so important. Because people look at it, and they make an instant decision. And, you know I don't think this is a positive thing. But I think it's just reality. We've gotten to where we tend to make this decision that we're going to go this one direction, and we're not changing our mind and that's what we love. And that's what we go with forever. And it's like yeah, you're loyalists to this brand, and everything else is bad or everything else is trying to be what we're trying to be or whatever. And I think that can be harmful sometimes, but I think that stems a lot of times from just pricing, or you know, like you said if things are a derivative of other things which you know, that's a conversation that that we can have too, because everything is almost derivative of something at some point. It goes back to Carson Solheim. So thank Carson, but you know everybody puts their own spin on things. And you know, if you're there at the right time Scotty’s timing was incredible. Also with Bernhard Longer in 93. And we had, we've had Bill Vogeney on and also Jim Butler, who just had some great stories about their time with Scotty. 

Eric: I always wanted to go to Table Rock golf club and go to one of their collector events. I was too young - but it’s on my bucket list to do something like that.

Parker: I'm interested to hear your bucket list, I want to get to that here in just a second. Also, I have two more comparisons for you to weigh, and feel free to shoot me down if they don't really fit. My next one is I would say that Seiko is one of the best values out there. I think you get a lot of watch for not a lot of money. I really love grand Seiko. Now that's a different ball game altogether. So I'm sticking really with just Seiko, but I kind of throw them in the category with Odyssey because I think Odyssey is just an every man kind of potter. They don't, you know, their pricing is not anything outrageous on most of their stuff. They're obviously hugely popular. They make really great stuff. They do really well on tour, they get the job done. So I think that I feel like those two are kind of a pretty good comparison for each other.

Eric: Yeah, no, I feel the same way. It's true. There are solid putters and obviously people like Steve Stricker have used them to great effect over their careers. And, you know, I remember when the two ball came out, everyone was having a heart attack thinking it was the most revolutionary design. The thing I don't love about those is the insert elastomer. Those type of insert putters just feel kind of dead to me in terms of response. I had a Taylormade Nubbins, was one of my first putters, which was like kind of like a basketball hoop type letter on the face, which was cool, but you know then when I switched to your Scotty Cameron, being able to feel the ball come off the face and reaction; you get used to that versus insert putters.

Parker: Yeah, I'm kind of with you. I like a little firmer feel. So the white hot stuff was never really my favorite. If I was going to one of the inserts, I liked the DFX a little better. The black ones. It was a little firmer. They've kind of gotten away from both of those. And they've got the metal inserts and all different kinds of stuff. But obviously they've done well, Phil's obviously been with him for a long time. But you know, I think they're a good value for somebody, a great entry level watch brand or putter brand for somebody that wants something that's a good value, I would say.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Parker: My last one and this one would probably be the most controversial pairing but I feel it's apt and this is probably very subjective. But when I look at a Patek Philippe, I think that they're just absolutely beautiful. The craftsmanship is stellar. The attention to detail is stellar. They look like they had maybe a little bit more, you know, handwork done to them and I would kind of put A. Lange & Sohne in that as well. I love their stuff as well. And I kind of compare that these days to some of the older, like handmade TP Mills putters. I think there are some underrated putters of all time. The value proposition may be similar but the cost, the relative cost is nowhere close because TP Mills I feel like is really undervalued and being able to get a handmade TP Mills putter for $300 or less, I just think that those are great, great putters and I just kind of compare that craftsmanship to something like a Patek Philippe or a A. Lange & Söhne or Grand Seiko something along. I just I've always liked the beauty and the, I guess the, you know, the handwork nature of those TP Mills.

Eric: Yeah, me too. And I think, you know, Scott Cameron handmade putters, as we talked about, I love those. That's something Bill Volgeny really focused on collecting. And just incredible, you know, not that easy. It’s not the most advanced technological design today, and probably not something you're putting with to get the lowest score on the course. But if you're collecting them and enjoying them, you know, they're pretty awesome. Plus, same with the S. Camerons, you know, just cool things, that's something Scotty had - just everything came out of a place of authenticity. And I think that's the case for something like Rolex, they were back in the day, really, building tools. And everything they were doing was oriented toward that purpose. And I think, you know, it's the same for other brands that are so popular today like, obviously, Porsche or like, they're very similar. They were tool kind of oriented companies that really resonated authenticity there. And I think that's the same for Scotty.

Parker: Yeah, that I think that's a really good comparison. Those handmade Scotty’s are just beautiful, and are similar to those handmade TP Mills. And I think that's a good comparison there. And I think what you said too, about people doing this, we do the same thing with watches, right? If you want to have the absolute most accurate time on your wrist, you're going to wear some kind of quartz watch, you're going to have an atomic clock somewhere near you. You're not going to wear a hand wound watch, you know, a wristwatch that is 80 years old or 50 years old, even. You’re supposed to have fun when you play golf, right? Glen and I have had this conversation because Glen changes clubs up so often it's wild, but he builds them every day. So he has access to different shafts and different grips and different heads. And a lot of the fun of playing golf for us and probably for you and people that are equipment junkies are trying new things. Like we're not 100% focused on shooting the lowest score. Okay, if we were to get fit, and we would use those clubs and we would work on our golf swing, we wouldn't change anything, unless it was really broken. But part of the fun and enjoyment is looking down at a beautiful 8802 style putter or 009 or looking at your wrist on a Sub or, you know, an awesome vintage mill sub something like that, that not everybody's going to have. And the people that know watches are going to look at that and be like “oh, that guy's into this. I like this guy. Let's let's talk.” So I think that's just yet another reason why I think these two hobbies just go so well together because time has been kind to the inventions and the things of the past. I mean, you still can use putters that are 20, 30, 40 years old. I literally had my best putting round ever last year. And it was with a hickory shafted putter that's probably 100 years old.

Eric: Oh, yeah, that's amazing.

Parker: So I think, you know, people just get enjoyment out of different things. And I think that's one of the great things about these two hobbies.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, I agree. At the end of the day, maybe I would be doing better, I'm not sure, probably not because it wouldn’t be authentic for me, but maybe I should be using, you know, a Scotty Cameron Phantom or something like that. But I don't like the look of it so much at address. And I'd rather putt with a 009 or a Newport. Something that brings me more joy when I'm looking at the ball. I do think I putt better when I have that feeling of confidence and enjoy it.

Parker: Yeah, so maybe that's, maybe that makes more of a difference than having the actual more forgiving putter? I would argue that being confident is more important than anything just about anything.

Eric: Yeah. And I mean, I find when I'm getting fitted for new clubs, or messing around with different things, if my eye doesn't like it, I don't care how perfect it is. I don't hit it well. I can't. I don't I've never been a fan of TaylorMade drivers, for instance, even though they're obviously fantastic pieces of equipment. And I just can't fit them well. We have the simulator; even if it's fitted perfectly and should be a great driver for me. I just don't feel confident looking at the ball, holding it, doesn't feel right to me.

Parker: Yeah, and you hear tour players talk about that. And, you know, people probably reference, you know, Tiger Woods. We talked about it yesterday, there's a Tiger Woods Backed Up for sale right now on Golden Age auctions. And, you know, the question starts to come out, how many of these are there? And you know, the number I think floated between 60 and 100. But they don't really hit the market. But, you know, Tiger has really only used about four putters in the last 20 plus years. And one of them for 99.99% of that time. And he's had backups made and new ones made. And you know, they talked about he can tell a millimeters difference in top line thickness or Yeah, you know, famous minute and restored.

Eric: Yeah. When Scotty gave him the backup, he looked at it and said, this is too thick. And Scotty’s like, “What are you talking about? Go check it.” And he was right. He was right.

Parker: So let's, let's talk Scotty Cameron a little bit. I know that, obviously, we're both big fans. I know you have a little bit of a bucket list of things related to Scotty Cameron that you want to accomplish or have. Let's talk about that a little bit. Can you tell me some of the items on your bucket list that you're really interested in and I think that's a really cool thought and a good conversation piece.

Eric: One thing that I would just love to see generally and I understand it may be in the works is a “Talking Watches” with Scotty Cameron on Hodinkee. That was something I tried to assist with facilitating; I think maybe if we didn't have COVID it would be already recorded. But yeah, he is really into tools and he's got some really cool watches. He's a big fan of the Aquanaut. I think he has a Patek Philippe Nautilus or a few different models, but he's even worn a Seiko quartz watch on a rubber strap, which is super cool. So I think he's got a really neat little collection. I think he probably has some Rolex watches. I've heard he has vintage Daytona maybe with Tiffany on the dial even. So he's, I think very, of a sweeper collector in the watch world. And, you know, it's just cool seeing him in his videos, or in photos working on watches and you see a cool watch on his wrist. So that's one thing. I mean, I'd love to see that. I'd love to talk with him about watches one day. I'd love to play golf with him one day. I have a friend named Wesley who started a podcast called Standard H Podcast. and Wesley worked for Scotty for a while and they did play golf together when he started working for Scotty so that's really cool. And, you know, I guess the dream would be to lose and get a Circle Owl putter cover, or even putter.  I've not been to the Scotty Cameron gallery in Laguna Beach. I'd love to see that one day.  Have you been there?

Parker: I have not. I would love to go to I, I would love the chance to go out there. It seems like a really cool thing. And they've, you know, done some really neat releases and things like that. I think that would be fun. Maybe we should put that trip together.

Eric: Yeah, so we gotta do it. And then of course the Scotty Cameron museum and gallery in Japan would be insane. I'm sure as well.

Parker: I would love to do that. And go play golf over there. Just from what I hear. Have you been to Japan? Have you played any golf in Japan?

Eric: I've been to Japan, but I've never had the opportunity to play golf there, unfortunately.

Parker: It's like it's an all day affair, I think.

Eric: Yeah, it sounds you know, pretty incredible. And then the natural beauty of those courses is just beautiful. So that would be that would be really great. Of course doing a fitting with Scotty or one of those people would be super cool. With all the, you know, super high tech. cameras, everything else.  What about you, Parker?

Parker: Yeah, I agree. Um, I have not had a Scott Cameron. But I think I would enjoy it. I don't know how much I would putt with them because I, I guess I'm just a nerd in this way, but for some reason, like, I feel just like with a Bull’s Eye, I don't really feel this way with an 8802 as much for some reason. But I find the sweet spot so small, that I would get really crushed when I'm using it because on those little skinny blades, they're just so small and I would miss hit so many putts when I'm out there. And that would just make me more mad than anything. I feel that I really care as much where they go. If they feel good, I can be pretty happy. So I would like to have one to have, you know, the artwork that or you know, the S Cameron stuff is really cool, too. I think he just needed to know that he worked on it. There have been some pretty cool ones. I had an S Cameron fairly recently that I thought I was really going to like.  It was really interesting. The putter was made for Michael Christie, who was a nationwide tour player back in the day and it was a GSS head. But it had a welded carbon pipe neck. It was a really neat putter, but it was a fake balance. And that doesn't really fit my stroke very well. And I personally don't really like stainless as much as carbon. But I loved the look of the putter because the neck was carbon so it would kind of know rust and have that kind of cool oxidation oxidized look and then the head was stainless so it was just such a cool contrast but I didn't keep it there. It didn't feel good.

Eric: The one thing I actually really liked about some of those Scotty Cameron's  - one of the things I love about vintage watches is the patina and the way that the hour markers on the vintage Rolex can turn a beautiful warm kind of creamy yellow and an older watches with radium might turn more of an orange color and I see that with the Scotty Cameron's that have different finishes like oil can or 3xBlack. I got a 3xBlack 009, a beach slot, which is kind of a Grail putter for me if you will. We talked about Grail watches in the watch world like what's your kind of endgame watch -  but I just love the 009 with the beach slot and and I'd love the finish in that, you know, kind of kind of wearing on the soul a little bit which I actually really like the look. I don't want something that looks perfect. I mean, I like Jordan P’s putter- the way that looks, you know, the years of wear and it's cool to have something that is developing a story and a look to it just with time. 

Parker: So with that said, I assume you are not the guy that's using an oil rag after every round and wiping it down and, and keeping it pristine. 

Eric: I keep it obviously dry. But  I would go crazy. If you're trying to keep the putter looking brand new, then you shouldn't be using it.  I am using it on the course and it's gonna, just you know putting with it, it's gonna wear a little bit on the finish on the sole for instance. That's all right. You know, it's the way it is.

Parker: I agree. Okay, I want to have a little bit of a conversation for the listeners about, I'd love to get your thoughts on why people should pay attention or why the value is there for high end putters and high end watches. What do you say to somebody that says, “Why? Why would I want to pay $10,000 for a GMT Master? Or why would I want to pay $20- $500? For a Scotty Cameron 009?”. So what is your? What is your answer to that for somebody who's generally asking? and wants to know, you know, what am I getting out of this?

Eric: Yeah, I think that either that kind of thing is of interest or not.  You can go through life and wear $10 watches from Walmart, and you can be very simple in your approach, which is perfectly fine. And there's plenty of super wealthy people I've known that wear a Swatch every day. And, they definitely have the means to have any watch they want, but they're just happy with that, or a Timex IronMan that they bought from Walmart. And they might use an inexpensive putter and everything else. I think that if you're into craftsmanship, you know, the same people, they could be drinking three buck Chuck wine from Whole Foods. So yeah, you know, you don't have to have expensive wine, you don't have to have an expensive car, you don't have to have anything expensive, that's fine. But if you study the craftsmanship, I think that, you know, it's a path that you kind of pursue and then you begin thinking about all aspects, whether it's like a nice whiskey nice Klein, nice, obviously, nice cars that are a little more over engineered versus like a Kia, or something like that a basic car, which is perfectly fine gets you from point A to point B. But it's an overall sort of approach, if you want to study something that actually takes a lot of time to produce and has history there, or, you know, or not, you can get a putter at Target or Walmart or whatever you like, for not very much. But it's not going to feel the same if you're actually paying attention, it doesn't look the same. And all those special things that we love.

Parker: Yeah, I think that's a really good point, I think, you know, the average person, all of us, maybe if it's not something that you're really, really into, or know a lot about, you would get wrapped up in saying, thinking that the price you're paying is totally wrapped up in the item itself. It's just the piece of metal, or the piece of leather, or whatever is in front of you. But really, like you said, you're paying for the craftsmanship and you're paying for an artist's time and their history and their education. And the story that went into making that putter because an assembly line is one thing, but somebody that's really working on something by hand, like there's just something so cool about that, you know? I don't surf at all, but the people that make these handcrafted surfboards, you know, this beautiful, beautiful pottery, or really beautiful woodworking just things like that. Like there's just something so neat about the fact that like that person might be the Tiger Woods of woodturning that just made that earlier. If somebody's asking that question, I think, you know, maybe we turn it around and say, Well, what, what is something that you are passionate about? What do you really like? You know, I kind of get into pens, you know, fountain pens. Well, there are some extremely expensive fountain pens out there. Just like a Fisher Space pen Like, the beauty that's in those like, you're paying for that too. And I think if you can find what that person is really passionate about,  and then you try to compare that and then maybe it kind of unlocks that for them. And then they do find that in that item? I think that's a really good point.

Eric: Yeah, no, I agree. Totally

Parker: What do you think is one of or maybe the most misunderstood thing about vintage watches? That's a heavy question. I know, because there's a lot.

Eric: You know it's really related to what you just said, because the same people would say, Why on earth would I think about spending, maybe $500,000, for a vintage Rolex Submariner from the 1950s, that's not nearly as nice as one that you can buy in the store for $10,000. Today, although now secondhand, with the new releases, they're more like $30,000. Secondhand, but still,  why would I buy something older, you know, that is not doesn't perform as well, that has age, some wear to the watch and is not really as water resistant as some modern watches? That's a broader question. But I think it's what I love about these things are the look, the storytelling, that patina, these things are really special. And to me, have a soul that a modern watch does not.  They're all unique by virtue of their age, in history, they all are a little bit different. Whereas every watch when it's new, looks exactly the same. And, you know, I like having something that's a little bit different than everyone else, that's something I can call my own. And, you know, if you buy a modern watch, I mean, Rolex may produce almost 100,000 GMT masters, you know, in a year in steel, and let alone over the decades. But, you know, over the last few years, we've got something that a lot of people have. And you know, a friend of mine, Ben Climber who started Hodinkee, said, when they did a pop up last December, in New York, one day, they were 20 different people that walked in over the course of the day with new Pepsi GMT’s, which has the red and blue bezel.  It’s not a rare watch when 20 different people are walking with it on the same day. So you know that that is one thing about new watches. Whereas something vintage is special, they've all aged a little bit different. And one thing that I really look for and serious collectors look for something as original as possible. That hasn't been polished, or they went back for a service that doesn't have replacement hands or dial or bezel insert, bracelet, all these things that get replaced, because they're tools, you know, the the mentality for Rolex, another watch, many watchmakers is to make them as new as possible, and continue taking this old watch, and sort of evolving it with time. But that kills the value to collectors who want something as original as possible.

Parker: And that's the same with those handmade irons that we talked about. People don't want them refinished, they don't want them regripped, they want the original headcover, original shaft. Yeah, that's another similarity. As a side note, I'm putting on my bucket list that I want to play golf with you and Ben Climber because I know he's a big golfer too. 

Eric: That's awesome.  That would be great.

Parker: Okay, I've got a question that kind of pertains to what we were just talking about a little bit. You're talking about, you know, a six figure watch,  a half a million dollar watch and a vintage Submariner. That's 70 years old at this point and 60 to 70 years old. 60 to 70 years from now. I'm sure there will be some watches that command that same type of value that a vintage Submariner is today. But do you think that's less likely moving forward, they're going to be less and less of those just because of like you said, there are so many watches being built today. Versus, you know, 60 to 70 years ago. So do you see that? Eventually, the number of really, really high end stuff is going to be less just because there are more watches in circulation? Or do you think that it's still going to be very similar? In that, you know, if somebody goes and buys one of the discontinued GMT’s sand boxes it up and puts it in a safety deposit box, and 70 years from now, their grandson gets it and decides to take it to Christie's, you know, do you think do you think that's still gonna pay or is it going to be less the case just because of how everything's been so modernized.

Eric: I think it'll be less the case for, say, watches from now being so valuable in the future. And I think that good comparison would be vintage cards, which I started collecting when I was young. And the golden era for those things is, is a long time ago. And people continually try to hype up modern cards, obviously. But you know, when the player stops, certain cards will be the most valuable cards forever, because of what they represent:  the Honos Wagner t 206, the 1952 Mickey Mantle tops are those that sort of transcend the field of sports card collecting, and no 1990s card will ever feel the same way or 2000 or 2010. And because card collecting became valuable, more recently, like in the 90s. Back in the day, people were just playing with the cards or putting them in their bike spokes and everything else. It wasn't collectible. But when the 90s rolled around, people would buy, you know, cases of cards just to put away as an investment. And that's the case with watches from back in the 60s, zero people thought these things would be valuable, that you could have Sub Mariner’s from the 60s that cost $80 at the time that are worth north of a million dollars today, or Daytonas, from the late 60s, early 70s, that you could buy for $250 that could beat you know, $2 million today or more. So that's one thing. Whereas like, I know people that have bought a ton of modern Rolex watches and are putting them away. It's kind of the equivalent of someone who was buying, you know, upper deck and tops boxes in the 90s. To put them away thinking they're going to be really valuable and a lot of people have the same idea. So they're not really worth anything after the fact, not certainly what they had hoped they would. I think probably that's kind of similar with maybe with Scotty Cameron, putters, as well, it's kind of interesting to think about, you know, one day, what will be really collectible from what he's made. I think probably the older things from the 1990s might be more valuable than stuff from today. Because it's so rare, and it was, you know, a lot of those things, not a lot are retained in excellent condition. I think a lot more people kind of began buying these things and putting them away, after it became more popular to collect them. So there's all kinds of brand new putters and covers and things around that are from the last 20 years that weren't collected in the same way in the 1990s.

Parker: Yeah, and that that kind of touches on another question that I had and that, you know, the couple of the differences between the watch brands and the putter manufacturers - Titelist has the Scotty Cameron brand under their umbrella, but, you know, when Scotty is no longer making putters, that's a that's a big hit. . Rolex just keeps chugging right? They get a new CEO and they keep on chugging and a lot of these watch brands will keep on chugging.  There's not many of these family owned brands anymore. A lot of them are under the big conglomerates.  There's a lot of companies in one umbrella. But you know what, I wonder personally you know what happens when Scotty Cameron is no longer making putters?  what happens to the value of those, you know, do they shoot up? Or is it that you know, kind of like, I mean, unfortunately, you know, I like I said, I think TP Mills and David Mills, putters are probably the most undervalued  and underrated putters out there.  But, you know, David still runs the company but his father's not there anymore. And the mystique I guess that maybe his father had when he was charging Presidents and tour players for putters, I don't know if that went with him or if it just hasn't been, you know, the next next new thing came along. I just wonder if the next new thing is going to come along. And you know, you're able to get a GSS for $500 or $1,000. Or it's gonna you know, there will never be any more there's they're gonna go back up to where they were at $8000 or $10,000. I just, I wonder that just because I know, you know, we're fickle. People are fickle. And so, will we appreciate Scotty as much as we do. Now when he's not making putters, or will we move on to Tyson Lamb and Logan Olsen and Cody James and Karla Josie and all these other people that are making putters now, are they going to step in? And try?

Eric: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how to answer that. I feel like the Scotty Cameron brand will live probably beyond even when he passes one day, just because it's so big. Someone else will take it over. But it'll still have that name. I wonder, though? Who knows?

Parker: Yeah, that's an interesting thought too. Will he allow someone else to take on his name when he's not making them anymore? The same thing with Bob Voki. You know, Aaron Dills, kind of next in line, and they brought in James Patrick for a little while making wedges. And you know, what happens is, that's an interesting what if I guess.

Eric: Yeah. I hope it survives.

Parker: Yeah. I mean, he's done so well. I mean, he's been the king of marketing, and he makes great products. And this is the Rolex of the Putter World.  Talk to me a little bit about Wind Vintage. What you've got going on right now, what you've got coming up for sale, and how the pandemic affected your business, positive or negative?

Eric: You know, when it started, I wasn't quite sure what to expect, my hope was that people would be interested in buying vintage watches, because they have a little more time to pursue their hobbies at home. But I didn't know in March, what was going to happen? Obviously, the stock market got down to 18,000. At one point, it just was in a freefall. It was very scary. so amazingly, you know, it was kind of quiet for two weeks in mid March. And then when April came around, the market just exploded for me. And things are really selling fast. The high end has really grown. I've sold more expensive watches the last few months than ever before. And it's been really remarkable to, to see, you know, people are on the auction side, where I used to work. There are many, many more bidders in Geneva and Hong Kong auctions than there were three years ago. It really exploded this summer. The main auctions all had north of 2000 participants. And when I was at Christie's three years ago, we were talking about 400 to 500 tops. So we're talking about quadrupling the number of people bidding, which is unbelievable. And just shows there's real interest, which is great. So it's a very robust market, almost, you know, global inventory, shortage of high quality pieces, very hard to find and when you get something it goes quickly. When I get a great watch, it probably takes only two phone calls or an Instagram post to sell it quickly. So it's a good problem to have but then you need to spend a lot more time finding inventory because everyone's competing for the same limited demand of watches.

Parker: Yeah, it's certainly been a weird year. I think we've all learned a lot. I've learned a lot. And, you know, yeah. You know, your business being, you know, very much online. I think, you know, I think it's probably been, you know, hopefully it hasn't had too much negative effect on you, like, you know, positive.

Eric: Yeah, it's been only positive. And, you know, the other thing is, I travel a lot, typically, I'm probably traveling two to three times a month flying somewhere. And since March, I've only traveled once. So it's, that's been nice in terms of being at home being with the family and allowing me to focus on the core job of buying and selling watches, you know, which is great.

Parker: Golf obviously has done really well through this whole thing. I mean, it's, it's sad, you know, as sad as this whole thing has been, it's been a huge positive for the golf business. And the offset of that  outweighs the negative effects. But, you know, for golf, it's really positive. I'm sure we've, you know, there's been a, I would, I would think, is fairly significant gain in the amount of golfers we have. I saw an email come through recently that golf equipment was up, like, a crazy amount in August versus august of 2019. It was like 30 to 40%, it was wild.. And it was just a huge positive versus last year. And in August, so just, you know, good for good for both of our hobbies, I guess, and, and jobs. So that's been nice.

Eric: Yeah. And I've certainly been watching a lot more golf when it restarted than in the past,  just being busy and traveling by Sunday, and I end up watching a lot of golf since they restarted in June.

Parker: Isn't it nice? It’s nice to watch that. It's nice to have. The majors are great. I'm really looking forward to seeing Augusta in the fall. Have you been to Augusta? Have you been to the Masters’?  

Eric: I never have.  That's bucket list for me.

Parker: Yeah, it's gonna look totally different.  I'm sure there are a lot of people that have tickets every year that are really bummed because they would like to see it in the fall. I would love - I can't wait to see the differences, because we're going to see it. The members typically see it in the fall. For those that don't know, you know, Augusta is really a  fall and winter club. They're closed in the summer, and they close very shortly after the Masters. So the members really play in the fall and winter time so we're going to get to see it when they see it. It's going to look different. I think it's going to be really interesting.

Eric: Yeah, I’m excited.  What did you think of Bryson Dechambeau?

Parker: I thought it was great. You know Bryson obviously changed his game, changed his body. And I mean, I don't I can't find any faults. He's the only person under par. He played great. He putted great, we've talked about the company of the putter he’s using, They've had an absolutely fantastic year. And spoiler alert for listening. They're going to be on the podcast quite soon. So we're really Excited about that. But they've just had an unbelievable year for, for a small company. And, you know, their technology is really interesting, obviously Bryson's into that. But, you know, I thought it was really neat. I'm very interested to see what's going to happen with the arm lock putter, I'm very much a proponent of it, it is legal. So I think it helps so I would really encourage people to try it. I'm very interested to see if it stays that way. And what the feedback does that they got from the anchoring band, because to me, this is almost just as much of an advantage as sticking it to your chest or your stomach. You have a third touch point on the putter being your elbow, and it helps keep that face square and all that so I really think there's something to it, but I thought the US Open was great. I obviously, you know, the course came back everybody was worried that it was gonna be too easy, but obviously only one person finished under par after having I think it was a 21 or 22. People broke par, the first round. So it definitely fought back. It's obviously a world class golf course, just brutal. And I think, you know, it showed what value should be placed on having a high, thick, rough. I think if you want to test the best players in the world, you have really thick rough, I think that's about the only way that you can get them anymore. You know, fairways are not really at a premium these days. And if you make them at a premium, they will back down on the driver and they can't overpower it. Now, Bryson didn't really back down on driver a whole lot, but he drove it pretty well. How long he hits it. So if you're long and straight, you're going to be tough to beat no matter what. That's why Dustin Johnson, Dustin Johnson, world class driver of the golf ball, as well as Rory McIlroy in there, two of the top five players in the world. So, yeah, I think I thought it was great. What do you think,

Eric: I agree 110%.  You know that the graph - that's the differentiator. And I think the thickest rough I ever played was basically Golf National in Paris, France where the Ryder Cup was, I played it in a tournament when I was at Oxford, doing an MBA, and we had sort of a European MBA tournament there. And the rough was unreal, it was so thick. And so long, and it was just really, really, really hard. So when you do that, and I think people didn't really talk about how hard that course was. But people were hacking it around, you know, hitting balls and more in the water, etc. Because it's because of the format. I which is obviously team play versus under par. I think people didn't appreciate how hard that course was.

Parker: Yeah, rough makes a big difference, I think. And  so I think it's gonna be interesting to see what happens going forward. I thought the USGA today was a great job, the course was actually green, which I know, some people were questioning but it's a great event, I thought. Are you up for a little rapid fire? Question segment here? 

Eric: Of course.

Parker: Okay, you can answer them as quickly or as long as you want to, but you don't have to feel like you have to give us more than you want to. So let's see, I want to figure out what order I want to go in here.  What gets you fired up about watches these days? Currently,

Eric: I think anything that's kind of interesting, amazing and great condition. There's always of course, the mainstay, which the majority of my business is vintage Rolex. But there's all kinds of different emerging brands like a brand called Enicar which is a very interesting brand that made watches in the 60s 70s that I really love. And 50s as well but 60s and 70s I thought were kind of their sweet spot. Funky interesting tool watches. I'm really interested in what we call it kind of shape watches so rectangular watches or square watches rather than your traditional circle watch. I just love love those. Of course they can feel a bit more formal, but I really love you know, rectangular watches on the wrist and something unusual, you know, from a different era than today.

Parker: I like those. That's a good, good answer there. How about let's see what is the most significant watch you've ever held?

Eric: I've held some good ones. Thankfully, over the years. One that I thought was really special was a Patek Philippe. We sold while I was at Christie's with a black dial and yellow gold perpetual calendar reference 2497 which is a very kind of large, complicated watch made for Haile Selassie, who was the emperor of Ethiopia. And that was a pretty incredible watch. All original, just worn. And really a special piece that we sold for $2.9 million at Christie's. And, you know, one of the really exciting watches I was really happy to be part of while I was there was Jackie Kennedy's Cartier tank, which we sold for $371,000 and 2017. When I was there, that was just a really cool piece of history. We sold plenty of other interesting watches that were owned by presidents and world leaders. And, and I really like, what I would call provenance watches, you know, watches that have really amazing provenance and background.

Parker: That's pretty cool. And $2.9 million, that'll buy you a few Camerons!  What are three watches that you do not currently have in your collection, but that you plan to own one day? 

Eric: One watch that I would really like to own is a Paul Newman Daytona. That's a whole class of these exotic dial daytonas that are nicknamed after Paul Newman, who famously wore one for the 1970s and 80s. It’s got these very intricate sub dials. And really, just a very distinctive look. I like the white dial like he had with the black registers. You have these three black circles, these interesting,  kind of art deco numbers in them.  Just beautiful watches. I've sold probably 10 of them in the last three years. But you know, I'd love to just keep one one day that's in amazing condition.

Parker: Yeah, they had a pretty good sale on one of those a couple years ago as well. From what I yeah,

Eric: Paul Newman. Yeah. Paul Newman's own watch, which he gave to his daughter's boyfriend, sometime around the 1980s. Because he was helping Paul build a treehouse, at their home in Connecticut. And he asked this gentleman, James Cox, what time is it? And James said, Oh, I don't have a watch. I think Paul knew the answer. When he asked the question that he probably had noticed that James was never wearing a watch. And Paul gave him his Daytona off his wrist. And then later James realized this is something valuable, and put it at auction, and that went for $17.8 million.

Parker: Was there any type of relationship at that time or any involvement between the Newman family once that was sold? Or did they just “hey, he gave it to you.  Sell it.”

Eric: No. So James did not end up marrying the daughter but he had agreed to give a portion of the proceeds - one of the daughters he had been dating, her charity. So I think she got probably at least $1.5 million or something as a gift for her  charity.

Parker: That's pretty good. The most valuable treehouse of all time.

Eric: It really is. Yeah, it's amazing.

Parker: And the best few days of work ever.

Eric: Exactly! 

Parker: How about a putter, give me a putter that you would really like to own one day.

Eric: I guess Jordan Spieth’s 009. Or David Duval’s Newport Beach that he used to win the British Open in 1999.  That would be really cool.

Parker: I like that. I think you know, speed. Speed hits home with a lot of people now but David Duval, David Duval’s putters. He has some beauties.

Eric: Yeah, that was like, you know the glory years for me just being a kid and dreaming of having a putter like that one day.  A Newport Beach,  just so cool.

Parker: That's a great answer. Okay, here's a new one that popped into my head today. Who? Who? In your phone? What contact do you have in your phone that would surprise us.

Eric: Someone that maybe would surprise a lot of people who's a close friend, is Fred Savage. From The Wonder Years.  He's really into watches and just such a good guy. And it's funny because I remember watching him when I was a kid watching The Wonder Years.  The fact that we’d be pretty close friends today is kind of mind blowing to me still. It's funny. He's a nice guy. One of the nicest people I've certainly ever met. And just so genuine and really a loving person.

Parker: That's really cool. All right, I've got just some more here and then I'll let you go. Unfortunately, I'm keeping you for a long time. Can you just throw one out here at me doesn't have to be, you know, the best one ever. But I'm looking for some great watches in certain value categories for people to think about. Whether vintage or modern. It doesn't matter.  

Eric: I'll focus on vintage. There's a great article that New York Magazine just did - The best Watches under $500 that are New. So I'm quoted at length in there about watches like Dan Henry watches or, you know, this Casio G shock Seikos. Things like that, that are really great. If you're looking to sort of dip your toe in the watch world at that price point. For vintage watches, I would say the best under $1500 dollar watches are the Vulcain Cricket. Really neat history, amazing watches. If you're looking for something more sporty, sort of the $2000 and under range, I'd say the Seiko coag Chronographs, you know, the, the yellow dial or the blue dial really neat history very wearable, some of the first automatic chronograph made and really, I think, a good value. If you're looking for something under $20,000, I would say in that range, a great Rolex Submariner, like a 5513, or a Rolex GMT Master 1675. And that sort of $5,000 to $10,000 range or sometimes even a little bit less a vintage Omega Speedmaster which, of course, is what the astronauts have worn since very early on for NASA. The walks that went to the moon, just an amazing watch on the wrist. It's still a large, bold, it is kind of one of those watches, you could have the rest of your life it'll never go out of style, amazing history. You know, then when you start getting above that it really becomes what most is most exciting to some people. Different things excite different people, some people really like chronographs like the speed master, where you can start, stop and reset the time function and have a stopwatch incorporated in the watch.  Other people like dive watches, they're kind of big and chunky, other people like very formal dress watches. And of course, some people really like the Gerald Genta designs like the autumn RPK Royal Oak or Patek Philippe Nautilus. Those are obviously just very sleek and beautiful on the wrist. So yeah, I mean I, I find myself really liking chronographs. Of course, I love all different types of categories, but I really like chronographs, like the Rolex Daytona or vintage Heuer, which was the predecessor of Tag or, you know, what we call pre Daytona chronograph from before 1963. Just interesting, you know, to see the evolution of, of these watches over time.

Parker: Yeah, those are great. Hopefully, people will get a chance to go check some of those out. How about I know you have some other hobbies, we brushed on them a little bit, but what else do you like to do?

Eric: I like to drum. Although I haven't been into that recently with young kids, I'm excited to begin teaching my son Charlie how to drum. It was a big part of my life growing up, playing in, you know, school bands, marching band, jazz band, played in pep band at Georgetown, and played in other bands since. So yeah, like music and I think I'm a big sports fan. I like the Green Bay Packers, Milwaukee Brewers, Wisconsin teams. So hopefully we have good seasons. I love watching with my son Charlie. And then you know, being in Florida, I love to get to the beach and get outside as much as possible to swim things like that.

Parker: Yeah, your drumming I think is really the genesis of this whole podcast because I was watching a video. I can't remember the Hodinkee video or or what video? The first part of the video  is you drumming. I think you have a Scotty Cameron Polo on.

Eric: I do. Yeah, exactly. That's so funny. 

Parker: Yeah, I saw that and thought wow, I think that's a Scotty Cameron shirt and then came to find out it was, and it has brought us here. So yeah, that was a post you need to see.  All right, I've got four more quick ones, and I'll let you go.  Tell me some of your other putter manufacturers that you have respect for. And we talked about that a little bit yesterday that there are some that you like, I know Scotty Cameron's kind of you know, your main focus, but there's some other folks that have your attention.

Eric: Yeah, I mean Bettardini, I've always loved and really liked some of his pieces over the years. Bobby Grace is someone I absolutely love. I bought anAmazing Grace Putter a long time ago like 16 years ago, 17 years ago. I still have it. It's just an awesome putter that right after that, was that it kind of took the tour by storm.  BJ Singh was using it and Greg Chalmers and all these different players. It was one of the first high end putters that became popular on tour and I still have that putter and love it. I love that the seal of it is just awesome with the kind of reddish insert he has in the dial. Or sorry, in the face of the putter. I'm thinking of watch terminology now dial but uh yeah, just just an awesome putter. And I've emailed Bobby before and I would love to come visit him one day and just talk with him about what he does. And obviously TP Mills pretty good David Mills, awesome putters, Byron Morgan. I really love the old Ping putters, of course. There was a great book I read when I was in high school about Karsten Solheim’s and I still have it somewhere. But that was very inspirational. So I was really inspired by him and John Solheim, and I had a couple older Ping putters over the years.  So yeah, I think, there's plenty of other putter makers, I could start going crazy. So I start pursuing all these different guys I get, I feel like my golf game is best if I kind of commit to a putter and just stick with it through thick and thin and that's probably the 009 for me now. So it's, it's the end and not the arrow as they as the saying goes, something's going wrong. It's not the putters fault. I need to figure out what's going on.

Parker: That is true. That is true. Have you -  this is a sidebar, but I discovered these late but have you seen the 50th anniversary Ping Answers? They came out in 2016 and they use the original molds from the first Scottsdale Answers and remake a limited edition and use those molds. And then John Solheim hand ground every single one of them and they've put weights, I guess it's tungsten weights in the face to kind of bring them up to today's weight. For the vintage feel, it probably makes you feel similar to how it made me feel. I just thought that was so cool that they're using the old molds. And some of the old shafts too I can't remember.

Eric: Have you putted with one?

Parker: I, it's funny actually have two. They have, they had two different molds. They had what they called the K grind, which was the Carson grind. And then they have the A which is the Allen grind, which was John's brother. And I got one of each. And the plan was to get eventually, maybe two of each and have one of each that I kept and didn't use. And then you know once again, they come in a really, really nice presentation box with certificates of authenticity that were signed by John Solheim, and they're just really cool because he had ground them all again, just like he did in there. You know, he used to do that in their basement or their garage. I have not hit a pot with either one of them yet.

Eric: You need to do it. I'll be curious.

Parker: I gotta break them out.  The three last questions or the three questions that we kind of like to ask everybody towards the end one of them we've already been over a decent amount is just your gamer but can you tell us again? Just the details on your gamer?

Eric: Yeah, so it's a 009 3x black, although it kind of looks a bit oil can, I would say as they can and just has a superstroke grip. I just love it. It says you know Cameron in the cavity and a beach slot which I really like. I just like the sound of the ball the way it kind of pings a little bit when there's a beach slot on these putters. As of now I'm used to it because of the putting for so long with David Duval, inspired by David Duval model. But yeah, I really, really like that sound and feel.

Parker: Yeah, it's a beauty for sure. If Glenn was here, he would normally ask this question. So I'll ask you for him. If we were to catch you on the range or on the golf course or at your house, wherever? What kind of music are you going to be listening to? Who are you going to be listening to?

Eric: That's good. I mean, it really varies.  I pretty much like all types of music except country. I'm not a big country music, but everything from rock alternatives to hip hop, I like soundtracks. I don't know, I just like that kind of epic music. Sometimes it gets you in the mood to work. You know, I even like some hip hop. And, you know, I like Christian music as well. We do listen to a lot of Christian music with the kids. So it's, you know, positive and uplifting.

Parker: Very nice. I like it. Alright, I think you've heard of this group before. We referenced them a little bit. I openly admit that I steal this from the Hodinkee podcast. But I asked all the guests I try to ask all of them for a cultural recommendation, a book you've been reading or a movie you've seen or music or something you've seen that you think people should check out.

Eric: I just watched the other night, this new Netflix documentary, My Octopus Teacher, have you heard of it?  It is kind of mind blowing. And I'm still thinking about this octopus from the documentary just so cool. Really, really interesting. And you know, expands you beyond yourself a little bit just cool how this octopus changed this man's life, you know, really interesting.

Parker: Now I really gotta watch it.  My wife and I, we saw the previews for that and put it on our list. It looks really interesting. I think you've got to have the time to do it. And you've got to be ready to commit to having these really serious feelings about this because I feel like it's gonna be one of those. It's like, heavy, but heavy in hopefully a good way. 

Eric: If I remember correctly, it's only an hour and 20 minutes, which is nice because it keeps things flowing and you know, we're all busy and no, this was two hours it wouldn't work. But it keeps it kept. It just kind of cruised through really nicely was paced really well.

Parker: I got to check it out. Well, Eric, listen, this has been awesome. And I feel like I have found a kindred spirit so thank you. This was really a lot of fun and something that I've been looking forward to and I hope that we can do it again. There's some watch interest for sure on GolfWRX - would love to get in and get you on with Glenn and and maybe BK he's a big watch guy too. So I just really appreciate you taking the time. 

Eric: Yeah, I hope and I hope we can play golf sometime once this all passes. I look forward to it.

Parker: We've got to make that happen.